So that happened

[petra]

Poll #7055 Our whole universe was in a hot, dense state

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 55

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So if you had two stories long enough to submit for a big bang challenge, which one would you designate as your official one?

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The completed mostly-f/f one you spent months on, because then someone might read it
44 (97.8%)

The m/m one you wrote the minimum wordcount for in 24 hours, because people will probably read it once it's been betaed into shape
1 (2.2%)

Wait, you wrote a big bang (even if it is only 12.5K) in 24 hours? That's

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impressive
17 (30.9%)

disturbing
0 (0.0%)

impressively disturbing
38 (69.1%)

Comments

[samjohnsson]

Post em both, here, at least!

And the second question really needs to be tickyboxes, dear. (You were wondering why I read you. Yeesh. Inspiration, if nothing else.)

[petra]

Well, yes, they will both be *here.* That was not the question.

Sometimes forced choice is more fun for me. <3

[samjohnsson]

But yes, for the 'bang, while I don't know the specific 'dom, I'm going to guess that there'll be a plethora of m/m, and ergo, will need more f/f. Look at it this way - you've got the fic ready to edit for the next 'bang.

[petra]

The fandom in question has enough m/m to choke a horse and barely any f/f, but that has a lot to do with its dearth of female characters who show up for more than one episode and the schism down the middle of the fandom.

As for the *next* big bang, if I were planning like that I'd post the m/m for the fandom it belongs to and save the f/f for thelittlebang, but I am much too impatient (and prolific) for that, and it would frustrate me to sit on the f/f that long.

[happydork]

I wanted to tick the "impressive" option in the second question more than once!

(The m/m one will probably get an audience wherever it's posted, whereas the f/f one might not.)

[petra]

Aw, thank you.

We will just see how the f/f does in its proposed milieu. I will be pleased if I get two comments, truly.

[eisen]

Begging off an answer in the first one as I'm way too mightily biased to trust my answer will be helpful.

(Namely, I'm too busy going "Post it! Post it! Show 'em who's boss!" to be a reliable witness.)

[petra]

You delight my heart. Not least because, well, did you look at the results? Nearly everyone is in favor of "Give 'em the f/f!"

As for who's boss, you know, I know, and several other people begin to have an inkling. <3

[loz]

Part of it depends, I think, on how good the m/m is as well. And how much you like it for what it is. You might be some kind of genius who can deliver 12+k of insightful brilliance in 24 hrs, but --- well, Petra, are you? If you are, please to be transferring that skill. Granted, I've had stories I wrote in a couple of hours receive about twenty times more positive feedback than fics I slaved over and tweaked for months (my most popular fic in LoM fandom is 400 words of "Sam has his hand on Gene's knee". I shit you not.) While it's a draft, and doesn't have to be your best work right now, I just feel like having the strength to stick by your original idea is --- well, stronger, really.

But, hey, you know I'm a pompous windbag about this kind of stuff. And I'm being a bit of a hypocrite, since mine is m/m... and I'm writing the bulk of it in about 72 hours. So maybe don't listen to me at all.

[petra]

Considering how close I am to the text, I find it difficult to judge the quality of either, but I don't think either of my pieces rises to the level of insightful brilliance. I have more of a mama-bear feeling about the one I've been working on longer--it's lovely, I've been fighting for it in my head, and I had to justify myself to myself to write it.

The one that attacked yesterday, well, I've been fighting not to write it. I've wanted not to write it for a long time because it neatly intersects with several of my happy places that I haven't dug into in this fandom. Is it deathless art? Ha. Is the other one deathless art? I doubt it.

Is either story going to give the fandom new and awesome interpretations of characters they already know? That's much more likely with the f/f one *if* anyone would read it; I have written myself a Cartwright whom I adore and I do keep trying to share. You, to choose a non-random example, are more likely to actually try the m/m one, not because it's dudes instead of ladies, but because I know you've been writing in a similar vein and might enjoy another take on the theme. And I keep writing things that aren't for you, but this one might be.

As for whether I am physically and mentally capable of writing 12K of good stuff in a day, no, probably not, but I am darn sure capable of writing 12K that I can make into something good by July to post by August. The deep irony here is that whichever one I don't save for the big bang, I will probably post by mid-June at the latest, depending on beta and Britpicker availability.

[loz]

You know, I feel this all may be a moot point anyway, because in my experience in this fandom, fest-fics don't get near the same amount of comments as regular fic anyway. For some reason everyone kind of assumes it's only the people involved in the thing itself who should comment. I've never understood why. (Also, all too often, the people involved in the fest are feeling kind of guilty about last minuting their stuff and depressed and don't really want to comment either.)

Is the f/f very kinky? If not, I'd read that happily. I am not averse to f/f at all. (I even kinda sorta ship Alex/Shaz, when I allow myself to ship A2A.) As for the m/m --- if it's anything like the other fic you wrote that was along that same theme --- oooh!

[petra]

Oh. Please do not feel any sense of personal responsibility here, because I am not implicating you as an individual, a mod, or a BNF, but this fandom's relationship to feedback is dysfunctional. I'm sure if anyone could wave their magic wand and make everyone *say something* you'd be first in line to do it. What the heck, fandom?

I don't know how to quantify very kinky--I have this problem every time I try to use those Cortina labels. My present headers say "elements of negotiated dominance & submission; mild consensual humiliation"--which may or may not qualify as too kinky for you. It's not kink that requires any props, but it's certainly not vanilla.

As for the m/m, the only comparative I have is--well--I used to write a whole lot of Batman/Robin. A *whole* lot. And I haven't been playing in those places lately, but I haven't forgotten how it goes. No capes, no masks, no pants on the outside, no running around the city in armored shorts, but together they fight crime and also there is sex. And age disparity and power disparity and all that sort of thing, which is also a set of kinks, in my lexicon.

[loz]

I just laughed ridiculously hard at 'BNF'. Yes, that's me. I'm not even mentioned on the fanlore page :D I think you kind of have to be known in more than one small fandom to qualify for 'BNF' these days.

I think your humiliation squick is stronger than mine, so, mmm. So far it isn't sounding too out of my comfort zone.

Um. Despite 'changes', age disparity and power disparity usually upset me. Yes, I don't know what to do with me either. I fear we're always going to be at cross-purposes with one another.

[petra]

In the sense that you're someone everyone in *this* fandom knows, you definitely qualify. Not in the "omg mean girls!" sense at all, and, no, not cross-fandom, but I've never had luck namedropping people I thought of as cross-fandom Well Known Fans outside of a very specific audience.

Well, when I post it in August, you can give it a shot and see. I promise not to embed any program to disable your backbutton, and it's definitely not wall-to-wall smut. ;)

I did sort of know that your attraction to that dynamic isn't what fuels mine, what with the ways you were avoiding some of the bits that made my ears perk up. I reserve the right to find it utterly fascinating that you spent so long on a story that's just to the left of the things I would've put in it, and *despite* a lot of them. Narrative needs and brains are so strange.

Although I will note that the power disparity thing upsets me, too, which is part of why I keep writing it. The only way I can make it work between people with other disparities without it freaking me out considerably is for there to be some *strongly* equalizing factor, whether or not both participants are aware of it.

As for the relationship to feedback thing, I never did ask how the Kudos Party paid off for, erm, relatively well-established and well-known fans. I got some, but not a remarkable amount. And I am thinking, maybe, post-big-bang, of something like China Shop's Fandom Appreciation Challenge, where there are Points for leaving feedback on various things, or reccing in assorted media.

Then the problem of "Petra keeps talking about feedback because she wants it all for herself!" comes up, but no, that's not it at all, or I'd set up a "Petra Appreciation Challenge" and offer drabbles for comments on stories. Which probably wouldn't work, and oughtn't to be as tempting as it sounds.

[loz]

It's sort of inevitable that if you write any fic in LoM fandom everyone knows your name, though, let's be honest :D While there's the occasional person who breezes in, posts fic, and breezes out, anyone who's written a fic and been around for a month gets known by everyone.

I reserve the right to find it utterly fascinating that you spent so long on a story that's just to the left of the things I would've put in it, and *despite* a lot of them.

I shall allow this ;)

I'd kind of guessed as much anyway. I think --- if I'd gone with my initial "creepy dark wrong" ending, it may have skirted closer. But that changed so early on. Hmm. We're just very different people, I think. What gets to me probably bores you and what gets to you scares the shit out of me. It makes for interesting conversations.

The Kudos Party paid off with me getting kudos from three people I know very well and two guests!

N'awww! *pets you* That's such a lovely idea. I'm just a little worried it'll go the way of recs fortnights/weeks. Little to no participation-central.

[petra]

Fair enough, but I would contest that there are degrees of known/accepted/possibly even likely to get people to $%(#$*(#*$()#*$ comment. ;)

Changes was *far* from boring, and I didn't mean to imply that at all. It was more--to switch media--like you were writing Star Trek while I wanted Farscape. I like Star Trek a lot for what it is, and when I want it, that's what I want--and it's not terribly fair to make that comparison, because you were definitely not detached about the whole thing. Maybe ST:TNG, with huge, sweeping emotions, and have I mentioned how much I love Patrick Stewart? I love Patrick Stewart a whole lot and would listen to him read the phonebook, in or out of character. But when I want Farscape--dirty, grungy, wild Farscape with the bodily secretion fixation--I don't want Star Trek, no matter how much Jean-Luc Picard it gives me.

And yes, I know Farscape (standing in for the really messy bits of the id) can be completely terrifying. There are *Skesis* in them thar spaceships, and I have never gotten over being afraid of those. But it's compelling on a wholly different level than Trek.

As for all that hoopla culminating in five button-presses for you, o lovely writer, well! Well. That does say a lot, doesn't it?

It seems like we've already got little participation; I don't know how much I can put into the place for a little more, but I'll think about it.

[loz]

Yes, well, we've already discussed that I have *issues*, so I shall probably never be a Farscape style writer when sex is involved. (Oh, man, the idea of managing to do that kind of plotting alone chills me to my core. Hah.) I can do darkness, creepy, psychologically disturbing, lizard-brain --- but not with sexual elements, usually. And it's long been established that my id is nothing like the majority of fandoms'. See --- you probably fit in in almost every other fandom I've encountered, but I can't help but be relatively pleased that my particular brand of banter-with-identity-issues-i-shouldn't-love-him-but-i-do isn't summarily ignored.

[petra]

I, too, have issues. They're just differently shaped than yours. Your issues are not my issues, but your issues are okay.

I don't honestly know anyone whose id is like the majority of fandom's, but I'm flashing on a panel at Muskrat Jamboree where people were suggesting their favorite tropes -- soul bonding! forced marriage! -- and I was sitting in the back making faces of "Oh dear, really?" with a friend and quietly not saying "mentor/student forever and ever."

What *really* gets me is how much I would call 90% of what I write "banter-with-identity-issues-I-shouldn't-love-him-but-I-do." That's the fascinating part, and why it's pretty much Trek vs. Farscape instead of "Well, you're writing Community and I'm writing Farscape. See you in some other fandom."

--which, if you *wanted* to write Community, I would beta for you gladly, but that is not the same thing at all.

[loz]

As for this fandom's relationship to feedback being dysfunctional; it always has been. Always. It's frustrating as fuck.

[basaltgrrl]

I figured I'd get to read both of them eventually... so I don't care which one you submit to the big bang! Ha ha ha ha ha!

[petra]

Well, *yeah.* It's a fannish politics question more than "What do you want to read?" really.

We'll just see how it goes.